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Today’s episode is all about podcasting. The small but mighty sector is still growing but different than it was before. Those changes reflect some broader changes in media, so I wanted to dig in. Listen to me and Bloomberg News’ Ashley Carman here or read below for a few highlights.
Nine-figure podcasting deals aren’t exactly new. Want to feel old? It’s been almost six years since Spotify acquired Gimlet and Anchor. The money is still huge, but the nature of the deals has changed.
Between 2018 and 2022, podcasting deals were essentially land grabs. Spotify, Luminary, and others shelled out millions to secure exclusivity for popular shows. The goal? To lock in listeners and turn them into paying subscribers on their platforms.
Some moves worked better than others—media is driven by the power law, after all. Spotify’s success with The Joe Rogan Experience helped offset losses from deals with Gimlet and other shows. While some creators felt underpaid, like The Joe Budden Podcast, others cashed in big, like Prince Harry and Meghan Markle.
But as those exclusive contracts ran their course, the strategy shifted. Networks moved away from exclusivity in favor of expanding their reach. With larger audiences and a more mature podcasting landscape, there’s more to be gained from advertising revenue and distribution rights than ever before.
Podcasting is one of the toughest media formats to scale. Discovery remains a huge challenge on most platforms. Audio doesn’t go viral the way video does, and unlike social media, people don’t typically follow hundreds (or thousands) of podcasts.
Most dedicated podcast listeners stick to a core group of four to six shows, plus a handful of others they tap into depending on the topic. Their podcast apps look like a starting lineup with a deep, reliable bench. Adding a new show means cutting into that roster, and being “good” isn’t enough. New shows need to be better than the ones already in rotation—and if they manage to grab a listener’s attention, they need to make an impact fast, like a sixth man coming off the bench. Think Lou Williams energy.
This is why popular shows with loyal audiences are so valuable for advertisers. Alex Cooper’s Call Her Daddy and Jason Bateman’s SmartLess have nine-figure distribution and advertising deals with SiriusXM. Joe Rogan’s latest $250 million deal with Spotify is non-exclusive, and Travis and Jason Kelce’s New Heights has a similar deal with Wondery. While some acquisitions still happen (like Dax Shepard’s Armchair Expert), they’re becoming rarer for the biggest shows.
Looking ahead, podcasting’s future will be dominated by the shift to video. Many podcasters I know have reluctantly started incorporating more video into their content and promotion. YouTube has emerged as a powerful player in the podcasting world, and video clips are creating more discovery opportunities for shows. While concerns about turning podcasts into viral clip factories are valid, I believe it’s possible to strike a balance and succeed.
Otherwise, the most talented podcasters risk getting left behind—like the great yacht rock singers of the late ‘70s and early ‘80s who didn’t embrace MTV. We can’t control how culture shifts.
For more on the future of podcasting, listen to the podcast with me and Ashley Carman. We also discussed:
- Audiobooks: Spotify bundles and the NMPA and MLC lawsuits. More from Ashley here
- Podcast ad trends: types of advertisers, host read vs programmatic, and more
- Data: why performance metrics in podcasting still aren’t the best
- Apple: had a 3-1 lead in podcasting. What happened?
Listen here: Apple | Spotify | Overcast
Chartmetric Stat of the Week - Sweater Weather
A modest hit from The Neighbourhood in 2013 has become one of the most valuable recordings in streaming. It’s the 7th-most streamed song in the history of Spotify with 3.5 billion streams. It’s the only song with over 3 billion streams that’s over 10 years old. It’s the only song on Spotify’s top 25 most streamed of all time that gets more than 2 million daily streams. And today, January 21, it’s the 33rd highest-streamed song in the world. Wild.
There are two reasons for its steady growth: Thanks to TikTok, it gets a seasonal bump when it’s “sweater weather” season. The song has also become known for bisexual identity and has become a popular coming-out song, especially among the Gen Z LBGTQ community.
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